E156 || Kevin and Stewart || Finding Freedom

Have you ever felt the transformative power of sharing the raw, gritty truth of your story? Today's episode invites you on a journey with us as Kevin retells his personal story that leads off the Mountain Mover Manual.  

This episode is a testament to the fact that true strength lies in our weaknesses. We believe in the power of sharing our struggles and how this sets us free.  So, come and be a part of this transformative journey with us. Embrace vulnerability, overcome fear, and find strength in your weaknesses.

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Transcript

Transformational Moments in a Podcast Journey

Kevin Carey 0:00

What I failed to do that I see now is you can't run from the person in the mirror , and so when I moved out here just like transitioning from high school to college found the same old me's .

Stewart Shurtleff 0:12

Every single individual has a story to tell , and they're great stories that need to be heard .

Kevin Carey 0:20

I want every listener to know they have the ability to change the world .

Stewart Shurtleff 0:31

Welcome to the 1720 podcast .

Kevin Carey 0:34

What's up , Mount Movers ? Welcome back to the 1720 podcast . How cool was it to have Holly back after three-ish years . I think you broke down the exact day in the description .

Stewart Shurtleff 0:45

I went and did the Google math calendar translator thing because I was actually curious , because we sort of kicked around , was it two years or was it three years ? And you go back and look and it was man . That was an early episode and a transformational episode , I think , for us , but I did break it . What was it ? 1029 ? I think something like that was the exact amount of days .

Kevin Carey 1:05

I knew it was making you itch that I was saying approximately three years . You're like we're not approximating anything .

Stewart Shurtleff 1:12

This is figureoutable , we will figure it out . I was , after we recorded with her , I did go back and listen to most of the episode , the original one . It was transformational because it was a new day , like a new day , sort of dawning , if you will , for us in the podcast and sort of the stories we're telling and the messaging that we were putting out there not our stories but of others , and I don't know if I've ever told you this or not , but it was transformational for you too . Have we had this conversation ? Because up until that date , I think well , let me , let me say it differently Me on the podcast has just been me , like this is just me . I've probably people listen and say I've changed some or my approach to this change some or something , but for the most part it is as me . There was a moment , like a market moment in there where you change from hey , this is Kevin , to like on the fly , like this , we're doing this . Do you know ? You know , I know the exact moment . You know what I'm talking about .

Kevin Carey 2:16

I think , I think when it just got real in the room .

Stewart Shurtleff 2:19

Yes , you , it was the moment where we were talking and I I guess you could just sense like I was I was not going to be able to make a really good transition from where we were to the next moment in time . I couldn't . I couldn't figure it out and you figured it out . I forget exactly the question you asked , but you laid out like the perfect question to her that like folded us into the next next part of that episode and I remember when it happened , thinking it's all new now , like we , that's a new Kevin in terms of our podcast journey , and it happened right there in that episode . I don't know if you and I ever talked about that or not , but if you go back and listen to it now you'd be like that was it ? That was the question that started that like the getting us away from hello .

Kevin Carey 3:03

This is Kevin into this version of like shucking and jiving , kevin , so brutal but those openers , like as soon as like , I just want to throw my phone out the window .

Kevin Carey 3:13

When you go back to any one of those where we had that opener but we didn't know any better man , we were trying to , trying to get it going but like you would bail me out all the time and I only thing I remember about that one is like you're like dude , I didn't know what to say next and you jumped in and it was like the first role reversal . But that was before we had the cues on when you're dried up or I'm dried up . Now we have them , we know exactly when each other are dried up and we got to jump in . But that's funny , it doesn't really happen anymore .

Stewart Shurtleff 3:43

No , what , I think I know what yours are . What are mine . How can you tell when I'm about to like just run out of stuff ? Man , man , man , is that my ? Is that my verbal ticket ?

Stewart Shurtleff 3:52

I've , I've it's a whisper , I'm like okay , jumping Kev you better have something I could tell yours , because you're feverishly taking notes normally , like like writing things down is , I think , oftentimes like the Kevin's not jumping back in here Like either you've like your brain has gone somewhere else or you're like locked into that , or I don't know , maybe it's a cover too . It might be your version of man , but I'll look over and you're writing . I'm like , okay , grab the paddle .

Kevin Carey 4:18

Okay . So maybe I got multiple ones because I thought maybe I look up at you with lost puppy eyes Like , oh , sometimes I'm staring at you . That means I got nothing .

Stewart Shurtleff 4:28

Well , obviously this is audio , but the face you just made was . I've seen that face before . I do that .

Kevin Carey 4:33

Yes .

Stewart Shurtleff 4:34

Yeah , well , the parts of . I think we pivot off of Holly's episode because there's a couple of really interesting points in there . That brings us to something we're going to talk about today . The thing that jumped out at me from or her second recording was the permission part of that , like having permission to have the conversations and such . But then you said something in there and you didn't make that face , but you made a face at me .

Stewart Shurtleff 5:04

That was about how you know , when we first started this journey , you didn't know if I even knew all of your story and my mind started racing because I knew parts of it . Right , I knew I knew parts of it Eventually , before it got written in the book . I knew all of it . I don't remember when that all happened and I don't remember if , like , at that date , on that time , I knew all of it for sure , but it was , it was . It was a spot where I was like , okay , if you haven't grabbed the book , if you haven't read through the opener of that , or if you've sort of missed some of us talking about it on the podcast , right , because we haven't done this sort of in long form , it only lives in print . Maybe this is our opportunity to give that permission here and just say , man , talk us through , because there's a point in there , man , and it builds to a poignant moment . But let's tell that story , kev , if you're willing to do it , man .

Kevin Carey 6:01

Yeah , for sure

Transition, Habits, and Personal Growth

Kevin Carey 6:03

I mean I've . That transition over the past year has went from not a soul to I'll tell everyone . And it's the same but different , right , holly's , you know wasn't a self sabotage type thing . You know hers hers was outside of her control and something that she was forced grit and resilience with and she still finds healing through sharing that testimony , and so do I was sharing mine . But the other thing I get out of it is accountability . Like there's really no accountability misses with hers , right , like , yeah , you know , it's not the same . And so I like sharing this because it sort of has to do with our industry and then definitely has to do with the purpose solar system , so the son of my solar system and where I had that wrong and with the industry . Like I love construction . It's done so much for me , I'm so happy and proud to be a part of it .

Kevin Carey 6:59

But it fell backwards into it . You know it was when I , when I was a kid , I didn't say construction is going to be it . You know , like this is , this is my gold standard , this is the everything it's . Now you made some life choices and all of a sudden that spectrum gets smaller and smaller of the things you can do , and it was just clawing and scratching to get a job . And going back to construction was just my natural tendency because of my come up and part of my come up is coming from South Side of Chicago . Parents did an awesome job of continuing to move us further away from Chicago yeah , out into the suburbs and probably got us in places where we absolutely could not afford , but they somehow , some way made it happen . My mom was a bus driver , my dad was a union cocker and so that makes some sense on how I got into the glass business .

Kevin Carey 7:48

But construction has always been in my bones .

Kevin Carey 7:51

But there was a lot of things that I wrestled with in my childhood , into my early adulthood where , man , I was slinging dope before I even had a driver's license , and so there was , there was a little retail shop of a small food shop and I would sell sandwiches out the front and other things out the back . And you know we're talking about an age where I would have to get picked up for my shift from work and have stuff on me or leave stuff there , and you know I would say the son of my solar system at that time was money right , like I was willing to cross moral , ethical , any boundaries to get it . And now , when I really reflect on it , I think another close son to that was approval and respect . Right , feel like Chicago's a big respect thing and you know a tough guy thing and you're chasing respect from the wrong people and that's that's where I found myself in my early teenage years . What's the ? I mean there's a catalyst that you don't just wake up and start doing that .

Stewart Shurtleff 8:48

Like what ? There's a not the catalyst is not the right word . But you know , there's a moment in time where you're like , okay , I'm gonna cross this bright red line , like , do you remember that moment ?

Kevin Carey 9:01

Man , I don't . I remember . I remember like trying cigarettes and we're like at a young age and like how big of a deal that was , so maybe that's that's part of the answer Like we were so scared to get caught that we there was a sod farm near our house and we would bury my friend's dad's Winston cigarettes in a hole and we would go undig it and smoke and then dig it back to get back in and maybe those were those reps and I'm talking 10 years old .

Stewart Shurtleff 9:34

Yeah , fifth grade .

Kevin Carey 9:35

That's when that started and building those reps , and I think it just started growing from there from from cigarettes and went alcohol from alcohol went , weed from weed it went to harder things and there was just a natural progression . Like you talk about routines and habits and all those things that we talk about that I was building those habits . So then when I had those moments of decision in the crosshairs , it was getting easier and easier for me to pick the wrong direction , if that makes sense .

Stewart Shurtleff 10:02

Yeah , I mean , I think it's like that with positive things and with negative things , right , totally . It's easier to do , it's easier to get up and go to the gym in the morning when you've gone 150 days in a row just as it is , and I'll over exaggerate the other direction , but I would imagine for like soldiers , it's easier to shoot the 100th bad guy than it wants to shoot the first one .

Kevin Carey 10:21

Yeah , and you see these things in early high school and God bless my parents for dealing with all my nonsense . But there was a time where I was either going to the military or the union trades . Like the future was already laid out for me and my mom kind of gave me an ultimatum on college and I won't share more of that story . But basically I looked at my buddy , jake , in English class one day because of this ultimatum and I just slapped him on the shoulder and I'm like hey , where are you going to school , dude ? He said Illinois State and I'm like Cool , and I got an application and I filled out to that school , application to that school , and I was like , all right , I've done my minimum , you know , here it is .

Kevin Carey 11:02

You know , low ECT score , subpar , gpa , all that sort of stuff . If I get in I'll go . And I thought the chances were next to nothing . And I got into school and I was like , wow , all right , well , I got to live up to my end of the bargain and I went and ended up going to college . And I will say , because of all the things I was living like , college was just another day which I actually think helped me get through college a little bit , because it didn't rock my foundation of the party lifestyle , because I've been doing it .

Stewart Shurtleff 11:34

I was primed and ready . Yeah right , like it's again . I've already had those reps . It's cool . There was no big deal .

Kevin Carey 11:41

Yeah , but what happens and you're going to see this continued progression is I go to school but I bring some old habits behind me . So , like I got this next phase of life holy cow , I got into a college , but very quickly , with a whole new spectrum of people that I don't know and I'm finding the bad . I don't want to call them out , but like finding the people that I look like right , you know , I just naturally , naturally gravitate towards and so I'm bouncing at bar , I'm going to go to school , I'm bouncing at bars , I'm starting to sell drugs again , but now at college and you know you're living that broke college life and so now I'm bouncing those together and again , money is the sun and respect and friendships and you get all that when you're doing those types of things . So , although I made that transition to college , those old habits stayed with me and actually even got worse .

Stewart Shurtleff 12:35

Yeah , it's funny how the I don't want to say it's like the haunting of your past , right , but I guess to some extent it is that the habits follow you . It doesn't I think you have maybe said this before like your friends change or your locations change , but the stuff , the baggage , it comes with you unless you make a willing , difficult decision to break from it , leave it behind or whatever , because it all tends to follow you , right , it's not the people , it's not the place , it's not the location , it's not the thing .

Kevin Carey 13:05

The hard thing to say is it's you , homie Like , it's you , oh yeah , and that took a few more phases until I finally figured that out . You fast forward through college . I got in and out at four years , you know . I kept my grades up and got out , and when I got out that was the end of my entrepreneurial career . We'll just call it that . But when you , when you sell drugs for that long , if you partake in them as well , you can build up a pretty mighty tolerance . You know , number one , probably because it's just built within me . Number two , because it's free . You know they say don't get high in your supply . But I was . And now you , I graduate college and I go into a professional career . Yes , I'm leaving the dealing behind and all that sort of stuff , but the habits still there . Yeah , and now I . And now I'm making real money , legal money , real career money , and it's okay , it's grind time , and so Monday through Friday we're going to grind it out , and then my weekends I was still doing the same old thing .

Stewart Shurtleff 14:09

Yeah , the , the , the , my , the , the grind during the week , sort of giving rise to the habits on the weekend or whatever . The . You know the relief , the , the I don't know what the right word is there and how many . You feel like that's a common refrain , right ? It's like ? And I'm more worked in the week , but the weekends are mine . I'm going to do whatever I want , no matter what that means .

Kevin Carey 14:33

Yeah , and when I really reflect on it , the son of the solar system . When I transitioned from college to my career , the sun changes from money to work . So now , okay , career time I'm going to , I'm going to stay at this building , even if I have nothing else to do , so I could set the alarm , just in case the the president's looking at the alarm codes to see who's setting the alarm . You know , like that's it's effort , it's tenacity , it's hustle . I'm going to go grind , but it's all about me still Like , I want the promotions , the raises , the glory , whatever the case may be . So if I'm doing those things and that's the son of my solar system and their success there , I have no driver reason to fix the weekends Like it's . It's justified , it doesn't matter . I'm killing it Monday through Friday , I'm killing it . So there's nothing to fix .

Stewart Shurtleff 15:22

Maybe I don't know what the other word is , but maybe even more than justified , right , Like it's , it's , building it , it's it's there's a bigger word there , I'm remiss to grab it , but you know , like it's , it's evidence that the weekend is deserved . Like because I'm killing over there , like I get to do this now because look at what I did over there . It's an entitlement perhaps even to have those weekends like that .

Kevin Carey 15:49

Yeah , and quite honestly I mean you've seen the statistics were in an industry that you know we're looking like 15 years ago , if that's part of the story like it wasn't taboo doing the things I was doing , especially in Chicago , like , right , there was plenty of people within the industry and organization that was doing the same , you know so I wasn't . It wasn't like I was this lone wolf so it was hard to even see it recognized as a problem , right .

Stewart Shurtleff 16:17

Right , so what ? So then you're still . I got the timeline wall jumbled in my head , but you pinpointed is there for a second , like still in Chicago , where you hadn't made the trek down to the , to the motherland , yet .

Kevin Carey 16:29

No , and that that ends up happening in 2010 . And when I get offered an opportunity to move out here , man , I really in my heart of hearts , but I didn't know what was actually stirring because I was unsaved in 2010 . So I get that opportunity and in my heart of hearts I'm like man , I think it's , I think I need to get away from everybody . Like I think I need a reset . And I was single no kids at the time , I never even bended Dallas for worth got this opportunity and I just said yes , you know , like you know my personality profile , you'd have analyzed it for six months . I think I took six seconds . I'm like , yeah , let's do this . Yeah , I'm sure it's an awesome city and I'm sure it's great .

Stewart Shurtleff 17:15

I'll figure out when I get there .

Kevin Carey 17:16

Yeah , well , and I pictured hats and hay bales and All that sort of stuff you get out here . This is like Dallas is a smaller Chicago .

Stewart Shurtleff 17:24

Yeah it's much better .

Kevin Carey 17:25

There's really . Yeah , go to the stockyards for what I was envisioning .

Stewart Shurtleff 17:29

Yeah , right , right , so this is 10 .

Kevin Carey 17:32

You said 2010 yeah , 2010 , and what I failed to do that I see now is you can't run from the person in the mirror , mm-hmm . So when I moved out here , just like transitioning from high school to college , found the same old me's and and again reactivated my Monday through Friday lifestyle , friday through Sunday , and that that show just kept going and going and going and going , and we're talking weekend , week out and between 2010 and 2014 . I was saved in 2012 . So , you know , came to know Christ and gave my life to him . 2012 to 2014 I would call like the honeymoon period , mm-hmm . You get on fire , you want to change and then that kind of fades off , like our New Year's resolutions and good habits , and , you know , I ended up sliding into an even deeper valley one of the deepest valleys of my life by 2014 , just because Wasn't working on the man in the mirror enough .

Stewart Shurtleff 18:34

Yeah . So let's hold that for just a minute and look back , because when you leave from Chicago and head to Dallas , like the thought is I don't know exactly how you phrase it , but the thought is like I'm gonna leave that guy behind . This is a fresh start , yep , and I think now and you may have said this you like that was not true . You were not . You can't run from that , dude . But if you had to do over , right , like let's rewind it to 2010 and your 2010 cab and your head it's Dallas , to get that life reset , like you're gonna . This is it Like ? What advice would you give somebody who's staring down that decision to actually create the hard reset that you thought you had but didn't ? Like what's the talk to somebody about it ?

Kevin Carey 19:14

Yeah , because it was all up here in my head like I Knew what I was leaving . But who could I talk to you about ? Where I was going to hang out with better people like it ? I would have to have a level of openness out here and be like here's who I was and who I am and here's who I would like to be . But when you're , I was surrounded by nobody out here , yeah , and so I had to go find people and since I wasn't , I didn't have like a structure or Set parameters . You know it was well , I don't know anybody out here . So after the Monday through Friday , where am I gonna go meet people ? How about the bar across the street from my apartment ? You know , right , and Same old story . Yeah , same old story .

Stewart Shurtleff 19:55

That's again . I mean that's a among other great

Overcoming Addiction and Finding Support

Stewart Shurtleff 19:58

advice . I think we've kicked around or people have told us over the last few years on the podcast , like , find someone to talk to about . It Is great advice . Just , period in a vacuum , find somebody to talk to about it . But especially in those like and I'm about to do something really hard , I'm about to have a hard reset here , gotta find somebody to talk to you . You got to find somebody say look man , actually , if that's what you're trying to do , don't go across the streets of the bar . That's a bad spot to go . Don't go over there . Come with me , man , we're gonna go to the football game . Come , hey , come with me , we're gonna go to , we're gonna go to service on Sunday , like whatever you got to seek out , either professional or like groups of people who are gonna seem to you in the right direction . Find your tribe right .

Kevin Carey 20:37

Super important and what I realized is not only can you not run away from your issues , like if work is your son and you're solely focused on that , probably some success and some promotions , and more money's coming . More money , more problems . Right , like I had more money to play with , which even deepened the addictions I was in the darkness I was in and started spinning me deeper into that Valley , which , which got pretty scary .

Stewart Shurtleff 21:05

Yeah , this is the part of the story where I knew you by now and when you tell the balance of this , it it's your story . And , as you say , I'm not telling a story to tell story . I stole that for me last week . But , man , as you tell this part of the story that burns because I knew you when this was going on and you didn't have any idea . I didn't have any idea and it will I'll , we'll tell through it and then we could talk about like just leaning in in those moments and whatnot . But my bad dude , like I , I know you say like it's no big deal , but like how can you call yourself a friend if you let this happen ?

Kevin Carey 21:42

I didn't even know it was underneath your nose , so man , we're recording this on Halloween day and it just makes me think of masks . I just had a pretty dog on good mask on . Yeah , you know , I have it all together Monday through Friday , right , oh , until I didn't . And that's what led us to March of 2014 , where it was another standard week of Monday through Friday killing it at work , and then Friday through Sunday it was time to binge , and so it was the typical part in and hard drugs and Saturday night , you know , people were at my place and then they left and I was really high and really alone and man , I , for the first time , I have like a full-blown panic attack , like , like just an uppercut of like this is your life , this is your present , this is your future . You're going nowhere , you're empty , no one's here , you got no family , like all of this is building up and you know , you know things like cocaine is , they mess with your brain a little bit , where you're not thinking rationally . And so when I was as high as I was , to the point where I couldn't even speak out loud , right , like I could only like text or type I Started thinking about end of my life . And now , and I had a handgun and I was looking at it and I caught the fork in the road . Like I had a decision to make there .

Kevin Carey 23:04

And Earlier that weekend I was hanging out with another buddy that moved here from Dallas and we were watching the bowls , and After the bowls I went off and continued a party . He went home and just something in my spirit Just told me just message Jeff . And so , instead of pulling the trigger , I messaged Jeff and told him man I this is the first time I'm gonna tell him , telling somebody like it man I got a problem , I had a problem , I need some help . Would you be able to help me out ? He jumped . He jumped straight into action .

Stewart Shurtleff 23:33

man , like I had flights and a spot booked within hours , yeah , so I mean , see the call , say more about Jeff , because I I don't know Jeff personally . I've now heard this story a few times , but I didn't , yeah , heard something when you told it just then that jumped out of me Was a heat . He was new to Dallas . Also , was it someone you knew from home ?

Kevin Carey 23:57

Yeah , what's crazy is so like I don't know if you've ever had this happen , like we were like acquaintance level in college , like a friend of a friend type thing , and we'd see each other partying and stuff , and then he notifies me like hey , I'm moving to Dallas , and instantly we become closer because now we're doing this together .

Kevin Carey 24:16

If that makes sense , 100% and so we became really close friends , stood up in each other's weddings level , you know , yeah , but it was that I'm moving to where you live .

Kevin Carey 24:26

Therefore , we are now instantly good friends . And you know I'm going to keep him anonymous for his for career reasons , for him , without sharing his last name , but he went through some deep stuff prior to this that I was able to help him walk through and so , like we were able to be there for each other through some really tough times and , yeah , he stepped up . And what you know now and I didn't know until we started writing the book and asking him permission to put this story in the book was that there was a season before me reaching out to him where he had another friend reach out and he didn't do anything and that friend and ended up passing away Mm-hmm . And so the moment I reached out to this dude , jeff , this was his chance at redemption , this was his chance at helping another brother . He wasn't going to let another brother down and we even I even put a snapshot of his text reply into the book as a caption to show you know what the profound God moment and all that .

Stewart Shurtleff 25:25

Yeah yeah . That is the intersection of a bunch of profound moments and the opportunity for folks to just linger , and I think I may have said it as well . I was working through the comments in the book , right In the reflections . It's just like you never know when whatever that conversation you're having is is actually a call for help . You never know when you're Jeff .

Kevin Carey 25:48

Yeah .

Stewart Shurtleff 25:48

And when you need the end and when that comes at you and an opportunity to like step into action and do something huge , you know . So just like , be alert to that . Be Jeff , in that situation , you know , be Jeff , be ready to help . Be ready to drop what you're doing and help , because it literally is life or death .

Kevin Carey 26:10

You know , yeah , it is , you know , and we joke we're big time South Side Chicago jokesters too . So , like he knew that this was different this night , you know , because it wasn't I don't even think it was the middle of the night , because it was far into the next day , you know so . But yeah , forever thankful for him and we'll always have that bond together . But I wanted the rules of engagement .

Kevin Carey 26:38

I wanted a rehab facility outside of Texas , outside of Illinois , mountain of shame , right . So I'm already dealing with addiction and the shame and guilt is building , and if I'm going to work on me , I don't want anybody knowing about it . So we settled on California on the very next day , had a flight book , one way flight , which is a scary thing in itself , yeah and just flew out to California and stayed in a hotel and then the following day got picked up by the facility and I was in rehab for three weeks and just off the grid right Like off the grid from work , off the grid from friends , off the grid from people in Dallas , off the grid from your parents , even right .

Kevin Carey 27:18

Yeah , no phone , no connection to the outside world at all , and my parents ended up . I actually don't even remember they found out somehow , because one day one of the rehab facilitators pulled me aside , said , hey , your mom or your dad's on the phone , and you know , obvious , obvious concern with them , and was just able to tell them I got this yeah , south Side , it's just a thing . I'll be back in a couple of weeks , don't worry about it . Right , all right .

Stewart Shurtleff 27:42

You know one of the things about the story that and I don't know if everybody kind of appreciates this , but we've had these conversations before about how people who have addictions like in my stupid , feeble , ignorant mind think , oh , it's over . You beat it , you did it right , like it's over . And you said we were in the studio one day and I remember I was like curling the cords up as we had finished recording . I was like you know , looping them back together and you said something like yeah , it never goes away and I like it floored me to think that , like the struggle , the war wages on the war wages on either way . It floored me because I never had that thought , I've never .

Stewart Shurtleff 28:24

That's never crossed my mind that you know , like you don't get a , you don't and I should get like liking it to like a king or a king Like you . If you love a can of coke , you never forget like what that sound is like when you pop the top of the in the , that , like the smell of the fizz coming out . You never forget it and you always want to like man , what's another ? Like we're just a red can of Coca-Cola . That'd be amazing right now . You never forget and I never thought about it like that .

Kevin Carey 29:04

It's pretty difficult when you know it's just you're just one wrong decision away . You know when that wrong decision can tailspin you , you know , and I thought I was stronger than it , right than the addiction . And so there was several times I tried to reintroduce drinking into my life and really that's the gateway , because once I have a few cocktails , like all reason , risk what cost out the door doesn't matter , it does not matter , family doesn't matter and that's what'll . Like . People in recovery or that have faced addiction , they understand it and we can commiserate together . But when you're outside looking in , you're like how could you do that ? Like you have your family on the line because it's broken in us , you know . And so learning that , and so I guess I should say , after the three weeks came back , got back online . The stewards of the world to use that . My friends were like , where are you been ? I'm like , yeah , busy working . I didn't tell a soul .

Kevin Carey 30:05

Then , when I came back , not , not one person and just tried to ease back into this . But now , not drink . And that got so weird that I started drinking again , which then increased the temptation . But man , so that was 2014 . And I went what does it know ? What does it know . 2022 is when I started letting that cat out of the bags . There was a good eight years that I held on to all those mountains of shame and having to fight this alone and the awkwardness of trying not to drink at events and explain it away . That has , thankfully , gotten a lot more mainstream nowadays , but like it's , that was taboo in construction , not drinking . You know , to my earlier point , like I could find somebody to hang out with and party with in this industry , no problem , yeah , which which made things more difficult than they had to be , because I was trying to hide it . I was trying to hide my flaws . I was trying to hide the mountains and not seen them for what they were .

Stewart Shurtleff 31:01

Yeah , it is becoming increasingly easier to not have a drink in your hand or whatever , but it is . It is still mean . Show up at a Christmas party , show you know it's . There is a certain commissar amount of peer pressure around all that stuff , that one thing leads to another and I suppose if you're , if that's the way your , your brain has been rewired , it's man , it's everywhere and it's it's you know , I sort of like this best as I can empathize with it . You know the like . I'm kind of a neat freak . I is this , shock you to know this . And whenever things are out of order and I think you're probably to me sounds more like being a control freak than a neat freak , but when things are out of order , it feels like people are just screaming at me in my brains , like it's , like I , it's a , it's an unavoidable , like distraction that I can't get rid of , and I can only assume it's just something like that . Like it's everywhere , at those events , everywhere , some it's like screaming at you , everywhere , you know .

Kevin Carey 32:09

Yeah , and , and I think I think it's atomic habits , where it says like you don't have to make all the a million right decisions in a row and constantly beyond it's the timing of the right decision . Yeah , you know , and so it's like a pre decision of mindset thing . We've been talking a lot about that lately , like and yes , of course I know you're a clean freak , we started the an organization freak , we started this podcast in your garage and I looked around and I'm like this does not look like my garage . It was , you know , pretty spotless .

Stewart Shurtleff 32:42

Yeah , the the Barry said remember we had Barry Brooks on he said something about the decision only matters at the time you make it , or something

Embracing Vulnerability and Overcoming Fear

Stewart Shurtleff 32:50

that's affected . He was talking about that , how you would have to drive home and there was a spot during the drive home where he would turn left or turn right , and he turned right to go to the , to the jam , or turn left and go home , and he could think all day long about going to the gym , going to , but the only time the decision matter was right there at the Y on the road . And that's the point is like you have to decide all day long . That's the point where I'm going to make this decision . Not I'm going to the gym today , going to the gym today when it no , I'm going to go when I get in the car . I'm going to the gym when I show up at this Christmas party . There will be a decision to be made and I'm making this decision now . It's not going to be the hard one . I get there .

Kevin Carey 33:26

I'm making the decision now , yeah , and that fork in the road , you mix a six pack in , it's a lot more difficult to see . It's plain as day when you're sober , yeah . And for anybody in recovery . They know that just that the choices you make in the decisions ahead get very blurry and maybe worse , crystal clear which way you should go , and that's the wrong way .

Stewart Shurtleff 33:51

It is worse and thought about like that either You're like oh yeah , well , obviously we're going the wrong way now yeah .

Kevin Carey 33:56

Well , and we've mentioned that this the story's in the book but it wasn't originally designed in the book . So you knew , I was starting to label out the chapters and stuff in that transition period and I was working with Keon on it and we had the chapters laid out and then I had that service at church . So I mean I came to take credit for , hey , this is going to be the opener of the book . It was in church during worship music . God's like hey , you know that story . You're running from that . You don't want anybody to know . You're starting the book with it .

Kevin Carey 34:26

I'm like no , I'm not Like you know , like what are you talking about ? But like those , those moments don't happen to me that often . So I knew there was no choice to make and so I even my next time with Keon I was like hey , I got , I got something to share with you . And then I told him the testimony and what's funny about this is what I really want people to hear . I was so nervous to tell him about my brokenness . And then , when I told him , he said something along the lines of Kev , I've always had you right here . You're right here now in my life .

Kevin Carey 35:00

Yeah , and Stuart , I'm telling you I've had double digit people say the exact same thing . After you share that testimony , Like I've always thought highly of you , You're now here , yeah , and so there's something about connecting with people that Craig Rochelle quote through your weaknesses , through your brokenness , the humility of it , that people could just see you for what you are . And you take that mask off and it's liberating . And , man , it was so scary for me to share that the first few times when I wrote . I have a log here's . Here's my version of the clean garage . I have a spreadsheet of every day , the day I said I would start that book , and every day until it finished , and I have a notes column .

Kevin Carey 35:45

And day two of writing that book finished , the intro , and I was crying like a baby man , yeah , it just brought me back in detail to that broken place and it was painful because , like I still other than our peer group at Telluride , I hadn't shared really with anybody and that was the first . Like , hey , I'm going to tell a group of people that's not NA , some pretty big things here . You know it's there . I think it's harder when the people are closer to you for whatever crazy reason , until you start doing it Right . And then you start doing it and you let go of it . And then you see the . You see the oh , you're not chastised and kicked out of clubs and fired from companies . You're actually embraced to even a further level , which is a lie . The enemy right that wants you to stay down and think you should be shamed and you're alone in this . That's incorrect and so sorry , go ahead .

Stewart Shurtleff 36:40

No , I was just saying it's incorrect and it's like incongruent with , you know , the heroes of the Bible too . It's just like those people weren't , they didn't have it all together . They were stutterers and cascades and people who were afraid and dudes that were bankrupt and abuse . Like over and over and over and over and over

Overcoming Challenges Through Weakness

Stewart Shurtleff 37:00

again . The power comes from the weakness , not from the perceived or faked or feigned strength . It's there , in the lowly , the lowly of lows , that people see your strength and that is very that is consistent with , like the heroes of the Bible and the biblical narrative that when you tell the story , people say I've always thought I love you and now I think , hand to your hand higher in there , like this right , just because that's the truth about where your strength comes from , right .

Kevin Carey 37:34

It's absolutely . That's where my son of my son , current son of the solar system , comes from Building an army of mountain movers , one person at a time , and you know this , like obviously with the podcast prior to the podcast , the book , like the glazing company , it's not just a fun expression .

Kevin Carey 37:51

It's my purpose for a reason I want people to move the mountains in their lives and see them for what they are and know that they're seasons . And what I'm learning is not only do you get through those mountains , but over time , become thankful for them . Yeah , I'm thankful that happened .

Kevin Carey 38:09

I'm not looking to run it back . I don't want to go all right , let's do that again . But I'm thankful for them and now I'm better prepared for the next set of mountains that I don't even know . You know they're , they're coming right , but I know I need to talk through them . I know I need to have predecisions of mindset . I know I need to have my tribes . I know I need to stay true to my purpose . I know I need to keep my routines and goals . I am better equipped , through God and through my people , to take on whatever challenges come ahead that I don't see yet .

Stewart Shurtleff 38:38

Yeah , yeah , so that's a great lesson . Through all of it , right Through your testimony , through stuff you talked in the book , through listening to all of the stuff , is there's lessons in there to hold fast to and realize and remember that whatever you're hiding from , whatever you're running from , whatever you're struggling with , is once , once you realize it is what it is , once you realize that it is derivative generally of not having you know your purpose , solar system aligned . Once you realize that the strength lies in the weakness , once you start talking with people about it , once you start sharing it , dude , you're free from it . You're free from it .

Kevin Carey 39:14

Yes , and you can move on .

Stewart Shurtleff 39:16

And there's there is , like we said earlier , there's great strength in that , no doubt .

Kevin Carey 39:20

And that's if you're going to take anything away from listening and if you've made it this far , whatever that mountain is that's holding you down , confess it to somebody . And and I don't mean confession as like I'm looking for an apology just get it out . Get it off your shoulders to somebody , whether it's somebody you trust , whether it's a third party professional , you know you got to , you got to be choose wisely , have discernment and who you're going to share it with , but get it out , get it out of your head , yeah .

Stewart Shurtleff 39:50

Well , there's no real great like how do you end that right and how do you put on other than just run the run the wardrooms , right ?